Get the Balance Right

Ep. 80: Generate Six Figures Per Year With A Tiny Audience (Guest Ina Coveney, The Global Phenomenon Podcast)

January 18, 2022 Heather Zeitzwolfe Season 2 Episode 80
Get the Balance Right
Ep. 80: Generate Six Figures Per Year With A Tiny Audience (Guest Ina Coveney, The Global Phenomenon Podcast)
Show Notes Transcript

Do you think you need thousands of followers to be profitable? If you've been frustrated trying to build your audience, then this episode is for you! Chances are you've been devoting too much time and energy to getting followers. Instead, you should change your focus towards achieving effective engagement. Your audience size may stay small, but your profits will soar! 

In this episode, we are talking about how to generate six figures in your business from a tiny audience. On the podcast, we are joined by the magnanimous Ina Coveney. She is an engagement expert and the host of the Global Phenomenon Podcast. Ina specializes in selling to small audiences; she’s here to share her super tips and tricks so you can be an expert too.

Contact and Follow Ina Coveney: Website - Linkedin -   Instagram - YouTube 
The Global Phenomenon:  Website - Podcast - YouTube - Courses and Membership
Ina's 100 Engagement Post Ideas: Free PDF
PodFest Expo: Website - Facebook Group
Russell Brunson's Value Ladder

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Contact Heather: Instagram - LinkedIn
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Zeitzwolfe Accounting: Website - Facebook

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Heather Zeitzwolfe: “Ina Coveney! Welcome to Get the Balance Right podcast.” 

Ina Coveney: “Thank you so much for having me, Heather.  I've been looking forward to this for a while. Thank you so much.”

Heather Zeitzwolfe: “You know, I am a super fan of yours, and I discovered you through PodFest, the virtual PodFest last year.”

I didn't know about you, and I don't want to sound creepy, but I totally fell in love with you. You were just speaking my language and you're so cute and animated and fun and smart. All of the things, and now I've become a giant fan of your podcast, even your old podcast.”

Ina Coveney: “Hello, thank you, that really warms my heart. I can't believe you went back to an old podcast. The Global Phenomenon is the podcast that I have right now. And this is my fourth podcast. I would venture to say I don't think I've ever actually said the name of my first podcast, but it's still out there.

I still pay for the domain. I still pay for the hosting of it.  I don't want it to ever go away. But, yeah, I can't believe you went back. At least I hope you're listening to ‘Trailblazing Out of Corporate Life.’ I am very, very proud of that podcast. That was the 11 episodes of just pure value, helping people get out of their job.  I'm very, very proud of that one too.” 

Heather Zeitzwolfe: “It was fantastic. Yeah. The one that you have now, The Global Phenomenon, tell the audience about what that podcast is all about.” 

Ina Coveney: “I am a business coach. When I first came into the whole coaching scene, I would get starry-eyed looking at all of these big influencers and I would fall in love with them.

They would be celebrities to me. I'd be at home talking about, ‘oh my God, Selena Soo is going to be there.’ I'm working with the guy who taught her how to do launches. I am going to meet Rachel Miller. 

Yes. They're like celebrities to me. Yeah. When I finished the hundred episodes of ‘Trailblazing Out of Corporate Life’, and I wanted to pivot in my business, I wanted to work, not so much with people wanting to get out of their job. That wasn't my message anymore to get out of their job.

My message was, you have a passion and you have a purpose in your life, and you want to turn that into a business. I'm going to help you with how to do that, but wanting to work with people who had a really big vision for their life. And I was talking this through with my own coach and she asked me, ‘well, what is it that you want?’

I want to be the next Global Phenomenon. It just came out. I want to be the next global funnel, the next big thing. Right. And she's like, ‘well, there you go.’ And I wrote that down. Didn't know that it stayed on my wall for months and I couldn't get the idea out of my head. I finished the other podcast and I wanted to start a new one with a new message, telling people that they can do anything they want.

The Global Phenomenon kept popping up. So, what I do now, which is I can't believe it's my job, is I go interview all the top coaches in the world. I've had Laura Belgray. I've had John Lee Dumas. I've had Rachel Miller herself. I've had Lisa Johnson from the UK. All of these big people, Rachel Luna is going to be the closer for season two. 

And this year I decided, okay, I am going to start going out there and just asking all of my heroes, if they’ll be on the podcast and I'm not going to take no for an answer. I can't wait for season three, which is going to be amazing. So that's what The Global Phenomenon is about. It's about talking about how the online coaching industry has created a new universe where we can do whatever we want and make money doing it. 

And there's people who are our own personal celebrities who did it, who were where we started and now they are a Global Phenomenon themselves. So that's all we talk about. I go and I teach in there and I show people what is possible.”

Heather Zeitzwolfe: “Okay. I have to tell you though, that the shows that I love best are the ones where you reflect on what was just discussed in the prior interview. And then you break it down into steps that we with a small audience can actually implement. And I think that's what is so great about your show, because we can feel like, okay, we want to be like John Lee Dumas, but it's intimidating.

I mean, that guy has been around for a long time. I've read his book. We could try to do all the things, but I'm here with a small audience. Do you talk to people with a small audience? Let's get started and talking about this idea of having a small audience and maybe becoming a Global Phenomenon. 

But I think really what you talked about, trying to actually make money off of a small audience rather than trying to be this huge thing. Can you explain kind of a little bit about that?”

Ina Coveney: “Let me tell you about this. The whole idea. The reason why I specialize in monetizing small audiences is because I had this big dream. I still do. I have this big dream of being the next Global Phenomenon, but here's what happens with people like me who get enamored with this big dream and want to make it.

Is that the only thing that we feel like we should be doing in order to get there is to grow our audience? And that's the message that we get from everywhere. Because when you go to somebody's account, somebody's Instagram account, somebody's Facebook page, or wherever they market, we see that it's clear for everyone is the size of their audience.

What happens when I start out in this online coaching world, and my only goal here is to grow an audience so I can be the next Global Phenomenon? What happens when I have spent an entire year posting every day? Getting good on reels, recording reels every day, recording stories, at least 10 stories a day every day, but still at the end of the year, I haven't made any money.

I haven't had clients and my audience is still not growing. This is a very common tale.  Just because I have this big dream doesn't mean that I shouldn't be smart about how I handle my business. It doesn't mean that I should have rose colored glasses that are going to make me think, ‘well, I just need to grow my audience.’

That's all I need to do. I know what to do. I just need to grow my audience. For some people it has worked.  I’m here to tell you right now, I started a real challenge with a few other women who had the same size audience.

And one of us out of our whole little group that we created to go through that challenge went from 400 followers last August and right now in January she has 40,000 followers. Well, how did that happen? I think I had around 300 followers at the time, today I have 800.

Hey, I reached 800 followers. How does that happen? That one person blows up overnight and one person doesn't. Here's the deal though. I am still making more money than she is. Let that sink in for a second. What you make in your business is not going to be dependent on the size of your audience, unless you have intentionally done something to make that happen.

In my case, apparently I stink at growing my audience, but you know, what I'm really good at is having a clear message, getting clients and putting money in the bank. So when I realized this, everybody out there is trying to get people to grow their audiences. But what happens with people like me, where the audience doesn't grow?

Right? That’s why I break it down. I bring you the Global Phenomenon. Now let's bring it down to earth so that your business can prosper. Even though you don't have a million followers on Instagram. So that's where that whole idea came about.

And that doesn't mean that I have stopped one thing. The big dream, I would love 100% to get 100,000 followers tomorrow. I want the goal it into existence. I want to manifest it, but I can't stop from having a thriving business where I get to help people every day.  I just got out of two coaching calls with clients and that gives me so much amazing satisfaction to just use my brain for what it was wired for and help people and make money in the process before I even get a large audience.  Yeah.”

Heather Zeitzwolfe: “Likes on your social media does not pay the bills. I saw you present during PodFest about this thing called a ‘blob’. Yeah. I want you to tell the audience about what the blob is and how we can target our message better at the blob.”

Ina Coveney: “Okay. So this is where the blob thing came from.”

The blob is the way we see our audience when we have not gotten good at monetizing it. Okay. If you're sitting there and you're thinking to yourself, well, I have been posting every day and I still don't have clients if you're thinking to yourself, okay, I'm going to invite, just make a blanket invitation to everyone in my audience, to a masterclass.

And when they sign up for my masterclass, I'm not going to contact them because I don't want to bother them. They should be able to just watch the masterclass in peace without me having to talk to them, without me getting in their space, because you feel like you should be selling from a stage rather than selling from people's living rooms.

The mechanism that comes with talking to people. I equate that to looking at your audience, like they are a big blob with money and you want some of their money. You look at the blob and you're like, ‘Hey, come and sign up for my stuff.’ It doesn't work because a blob, a group of people, a mob of people don't all act because you tell them to, and they don't know think the same way and they don't have the same motivations.

They're not a blob. What you're looking at is individuality in your audience. So when somebody signs up for your webinar, instead of thinking, ‘oh my God, should I contact them?’ I just did a workshop and somebody asked this question. They said somebody signed up for my workshop or for my webinar and by their name and their email address, I was able to figure out who they were on social media.

I saw that they started following me on Instagram too. Would it be creepy to say ‘hi, thank you for signing up for the masterclass on Instagram,’ even though they didn't give me their Instagram, would that be creepy? I'm like, why would it be creepy? They're the ones coming to you. They gave you their information, right?

And we have human brains. If my name is Ina Coveney and my email address is my name. And my Instagram handle says that I'm Ina Coveney, it would stand to reason that you would know I'm the same person. We have to stop feeling like we need to leave our followers alone. The way that I explain it sometimes is for some reason, we have all accepted our followers as legal, silent stalkers,  people who follow us around and who know everything about us, but we're not allowed to talk to them.

They're supposed to learn in silence, we're supposed to be silent about it. And I'm like, no. If somebody is following me and learning everything about me and consuming my content, I'm going to reach out to them on the show and say, ‘hi, how's it going?’ When you learn to monetize a small audience, you stop looking at your people.

Those stalkers that you're not supposed to talk to, you start looking at them individually. And when you do that, you have half the game made in monetizing a smaller audience.”

Heather Zeitzwolfe: “So this small audience, if we pick a niche that we want to go into, I know that on your podcast, you've talked about having a single offer or slimming down your offer so that you can have more of this.

You've referred to it as a value ladder. And we've talked about how you kind of niche down on the show before, but maybe if you could just touch on the importance of niching so that you can slim down your offers.” 

Ina Coveney: “The concept of the value ladder is something that is from Russell Brunson, he's the expert. He’s the creator of Click Funnels. 

But the idea of the value ladder is that I want you to think of not so much of a ladder. I like to think about it like a funnel. We use that term in marketing all the time, but I want you to think I found like a legit funnel with a wide opening at the top and a tiny opening at the bottom.

And at the top, what you have is the people who have become aware of you, okay? Somebody said your name. They might've seen a reel. They might've seen your post. Somebody else tells you they became aware that you exist. So it's your job to get that person a little bit deeper into that. What invitation can you make to get that person to learn a little bit more about you or about your message or about your content?

It could be just your content itself because they saw a reel.  Hey, follow me for more reels like this one. And now they follow and by then are taking action. They've gotten a little bit deeper and a little bit deeper and deeper into the funnel. Then you can invite them to a masterclass after they give you their email address.

That's even deeper. They signed up for your low level offer. That's even deeper until finally at the bottom of the funnel, you have your biggest high-ticket offer. The idea of the value ladder is sort of that you start at the bottom with free content and then you give them an opportunity to learn more with something that is low cost.

I myself have a low cost offer that I actually don't talk about it a lot, but it's something that I gift to my higher paying clients, because it's just a magnificent little bundle.  It's called the ‘30 Days to 30 Leads’ Bundle. And when people go through, they get leads in 30 days. It's a magic. It's amazing.

So I sell it for $30, and people can just go and get it ‘30 Days to Leads’. And that tells me that that person is interested in getting clients, that person is having a pain point and that is that they don't know how to meet people online. 

So if I invite them to download that 30 Days to Leads Bundle, or if I invite them to my masterclass, which is called ‘Get Clients with a Tiny Audience’, that's gotta be them raising their hand and saying, this is a problem that I need a solution for. So if they're telling me that they need leads and that they need to get clients with a tiny offer, then that tells me you're probably a good fit to join my program.

So something that I failed miserably at in my first year in business is that I didn't really understand that the value ladder wasn't just about giving value, but it was meant to be a ladder.  It's meant to be taking me, taking that person closer and closer and closer to working with me.

So in my very first webinar only three people show up. And I knew who they were. One was a coworker of mine who just wanted to support me. And the other one was my cousin who I knew wasn't going to buy anything. And the other one was my cousin's friend who she invited for solidarity.

Nobody bought anything. I didn't even make a pitch. I was just too chicken to make any pitch. That was my first webinar in that way. The webinar was called ‘Six Ways to Make Money Doing What You Love Without Quitting Your Job’. At the end of the webinar, I was promoting a course on how to make WordPress sites.

Now think about that for a second. How on earth am I qualifying someone to buy a WordPress course? ‘Six Ways to Make Money Doing What You Love Without Quitting Your Job’. Like in my mind, it made sense. I'm like, no, because these are people who want side income. I can teach them how to make more per site and then they'll have side income.

It made perfect sense. It doesn't make sense. My masterclass should have been something about how to create something more precise on your own. The Five Key Steps. That is the name of a masterclass that is selling a WordPress course. So your ladder is meant to get people closer and closer to buying your higher offers.

So everything has to be very, very closely related. You're qualifying them.” 

Heather Zeitzwolfe: “Okay. So when you have a small audience and you want to make six figures from this small audience, if I'm hearing you correctly, the idea is that when you come up with that big offer and then every other offer that you have supports them getting to that offer, almost like they do this, then the next step is this.

And then it's as easy. They step into each step as they move along. Is that correct?” 

Ina Coveney: “Exactly. And I'm going to tell you right now, there's a lot of people who are going to go through those steps very fast. I've gotten clients who, after the first day of learning about me, they look at my profile. They see that I look professional.

They see that I know what I'm talking about. They see other credibility markers. Oh, I see that you teach people about this. They see a testimonial on my feed. They see that I did something and then immediately they get presented with my highest offer. They go and they sign up right away. They'd be like, I felt like I needed this.

So I did it. I have a membership and one of my annual members, the first person ever who signed up for an annual membership from me, she's not someone that we had been talking all the time. She's not someone who we had bought my lower ticket offers. She never bought anything.

And all of a sudden she's giving me thousands of dollars to work with me. Wait, wait, let's back up for a second. Like where did they come from? She's been aware of me for a long time. I saw your offer. I felt this was the right thing and was the right time. I said, why not? Well, that's great. So it doesn't work perfectly that way all the time, but for people who need time to get to know you, they need to see that you're a serious person.

So they got to see you putting out offers. Sometimes it takes that long. I've actually had her in my offer. For over a year, we had just never really interacted. I could have just continued to put out breadcrumbs for her, but she didn't need it. She just needed to wait until the right time. So my only job during that time was to just show up, to show her that I'm serious, that I'm not going anywhere and that I'm still providing this kind of value, so that when she's ready, she can just jump.”

Heather Zeitzwolfe: “So if we have a small audience and we want to keep them engaged, besides maybe sending them a DM or like making a personalized video and loom, what are some other things that we could do to have more touch points with them? That's not creepy and it's not annoying, but it shows that we care.” 

Ina Coveney: “Uh, you can't see it because this is a podcast and you can see video, but I'm showing it to you, Heather.

This is something that I give to all my clients. I call it the sales point, because if you want to make a buck, you need both sides of the coin. All right. One side is engagement. The other side is content. Okay. Here's the deal. I could come here, Heather, and tell you about more touch points that you can have with every single person all day long, but it's not going to help you make a sale because I don't do selling through engagement.

I don't go to your feed and say, ‘Hey, did you notice that I have a massive class going on? Hey, did you notice that I have a freebie? Hey, did you download my hundred ideas yet?’ Sorry, I don't do that. What does the selling for me is my content. So in the beginning, you're like, ‘Hey, I've been binging on your podcast. I even went back to the old podcast and I love it.’

That's me keeping you engaged, even though we were not talking to each other, that is my content doing the work for me. And while you're enjoying every single interview that you listened to on my podcast, you're also getting an ad.

You're also getting, ‘Hey, by the way, did you download your ‘100 Ideas’ yet? Hey, by the way, I'm doing a master class. It's happening soon. Go on, sign up. Hey, by the way, did you know that the doors to get clients are open?’ There's no way for you to escape that. So if you like my content, you're going to see my ads.

It's the same way that it works in my Instagram account. People who've talked to me over DMs can all attest to this. I don't go and try to sell you something. I have in fact, such great relationships with my audience, from people who love me.

They love everything that I put out there every single time. And they told me I'm just not your ideal client, but I just want to be here. And I just want to keep going through your master. It is that okay? Yeah. That's fine. 

And we keep having that relationship where they, they're not afraid to send me a message.  They just start conversations with me because they know they're not afraid. And then they don’t feel I’m going to try to sell them something or going to pitch to them. They know I don't do my selling on engagement.

They can't escape my pitches on my content. If I were to come here to answer your question, like, what are the other touch points? I'm gonna tell you, talk to people, just like you said, send them a loom video, voice notes over DMs, all that stuff, but have your content side of the house. Give them opportunities to learn more, not from you, but from your content.

Content is anything that you put out there that gives them a message. Anything you create.  It can be images. It can be video, it can be text. It can be emails. It can be a podcast. It can be a YouTube video. All of that is content. So you get to give people an opportunity to learn from you.”

Heather Zeitzwolfe: “To grow a small audience, what are some other things that you think people have to put in place besides having a slim down offer with the value ladder and the engagement points and all the things that you've talked about so far? Is there anything that we're missing that we absolutely need?” 

Ina Coveney: “I'll give you one tip that I actually just gave today.

And I don't think I’ve put this anywhere. So it's like, this is the first time that you'll hear me say this. I don't say this a lot. Anytime that you get advice on sales calls on engaging with people and getting people to buy your offers, just remember that not everybody is going to be for you.

Not everybody is going to be an ideal client. This is the tip you're going to make your life and your business a lot easier. If you focus on people that you would click with in regular life, maybe like your same age group, people who have the same background.

If you're targeting somebody who is a completely different demographic, really ask yourself, are there people who have more in common with you that you could be helping? Without you even noticing, did you start attracting people who are a lot like you? 

Let me give you a really clear example.  All of my marketing is done in English. I'm from Venezuela. I speak Spanish. I don't really put a lot of Spanish in my marketing. I don't consider myself somebody who started getting only Latinas, but for some reason, half of my membership is Latinas. Half of my membership is bilingual. Why does that happen? I don't know. I have not really put it obviously out there.  It just happens naturally and people who are like each other, they, people who relate to your story, they are going to come to you, share your story and talk to people who you would be friends with in real life.

And just getting clients gets a lot easier when you're dealing with people who like you and that you like.” 

Heather Zeitzwolfe: “I think that completely makes sense. And you have a program called ‘Get Clients First’. Tell us about the thought process behind that because obviously if we're in business, it's not about how many likes we get or how many subscribers.  It's really about making money in the business.”

Ina Coveney: “Remember when we were talking about growing an audience and how that's what we think we should be doing? And we're posting every day and the audience is still not growing and we're still not getting clients? That's when I decided to create this membership. I'm going to tell you something that happened more than a year ago.

I had a high ticket offer where I would gather a bunch of entrepreneurs who wanted to get their websites. And it would go and I would make it for them. The first time I ran the program, the second time I actually hired people to come and make the websites for them all under my supervision, the websites were beautiful.

They went out on time. Everybody was really happy at the end of the program. Everybody couldn't wait until their websites went live. They're like, yes. Okay. We're ready. Business in a box, right? They had the mentorship to create their ideal client.

They have their offer. They had their freebie and they had a website all in a matter of 13 weeks.  Months later I went back to them and asked them, so how are things going? I gave you a business. What did you do with it? Most of them had stopped. Most of them had just given up.

They decided they changed their minds. They said that this wasn't really their ideal clients or the timing wasn't right or there was something that happened that made them stop in their businesses. And I asked ‘but I gave you exactly what you were asking for. You said that in order to look professional and to get clients and to put yourself out there, you needed a website.

That's what you said. And I gave it to you what happened?’ And they said, I guess that, wasn't the thing that I needed. I just still have no idea how to get clients. And that's when it hit me, how can I go out there and continue to promote that? That is giving people what they want but it's not giving people what they need.

And it really hit me that I was part of the problem in the coaching industry of people spending $5,000 on a product, on a coach, on a program and at the end of the year, still not have anything to show for it. I did that. I invested at that level and even higher on coaches and programs and things that I thought I needed.

And then in the end, I wasn't getting clients and I wasn't even paying off debt from those first few years of my business. When it came down to it, I had to rethink my strategy. And I switched to talking more about the Global Phenomenon. I started that podcast when I started testing a new idea.

What if I let go of the websites? And I say, you know what, everyone? I've been making websites for 20 years and I'm here to tell you, you don't need one. This is not the first step that you need in your business. It's just not, it's a distraction, it's a money suck, and it's not going to help you. What you need to do is to learn how to get clients first.

And that's what the idea of the program came about. All I do in that program is to teach coaches who have been struggling. To actually get clients to learn the art of the sales point, the engagement and the content so that they can get themselves client. Within the first 30 days, they get their first clients after months of posting and having a great online presence that nothing was happening.

They joined the program and all of a sudden clients are happening for them. This makes me feel that I’m part of the solution.” 

Heather Zeitzwolfe: “Wow. With all of that, I'm a kind of a tech person. I love technology. And I can imagine, like, you're engaging with these prospects and along the way you have different touch points.

Do you use any kind of software to kind of track these touch points? And do you have any favorite software that you could recommend?” 

Ina Coveney: “I wish I had a better answer, but because I'm a techie person myself, I am a snob when it comes to tools that try to make things way too smart. I am an Excel person. I am Google Sheets user because I can access them from anywhere and I can create anything.

I want everything to be an Excel sheet. I can make it be any color I can use macros. I can use pivot tables. I do everything on Excel spreadsheets. You don't need any more than that. Uh, you can just take your full list of followers, put them on a spreadsheet and then just follow up with them that way, if you want, I'm a spreadsheet person.”

Heather Zeitzwolfe: “I'm glad that you said that because I do all my prospecting in Google sheets myself, and I've looked at so many different CRMs. And to me it almost feels like you kind of have to dig down to see all the information. I just like it all in one sheet. So I'm glad you said that. Okay. That makes it easy and inexpensive for everybody.

Awesome. Well, okay. People can work with you through doing your ongoing membership. How else can they work with you and where else can they find you?” 

Ina Coveney: “Oh, thank you so much for asking at this point. I think because of everything we just stopped that. The next step gets you into my mailing list, it gets you to getting notifications for when I go live to teach is to download their ‘100 Engagement Post Ideas’. I actually sat down and I wrote down 100 ways to post in a way that puts you in the driver's seat of engagement, so that you never again have to say, ‘but nobody's engaging with me.’

My clients don't say that because that is a victim mentality. Engagement is 100% in your control and it is what leads to clients. I sat down painstakingly for all of you and created a list of a hundred ways that you can use social media to entice engagement, to stay in the driver's seat. And you can get that at

You can find me on Instagram.  Come and send me a DM. Tell me that you found me on Heather's podcast. Just go to @yourengagementcoach on Instagram and say hi.” 

Heather Zeitzwolfe: “Thank you so much. And I can attest that I downloaded the 100 post download and it's really good. I shared it with my new VA and I'm like, we gotta use this!” 

Ina Coveney: “Thank you so much for downloading. Yeah, I am very, very proud of that. Very, very proud of that. It really gives you results. It's crazy how these things work.” 

Heather Zeitzwolfe: “Yes. Thank you so much for being on Get the Balance Right podcast.” 

Ina Coveney: “Thank you so much for having me, Heather. This was so fun. I could talk for three more hours.

Lovely. I think as long as everybody walks away, knowing that it's not just all about engagement, it's about the engagement plus your content.” 

Heather Zeitzwolfe: “I love that. And it's not really about selling because at that point, once you have both of those sides of the coin, the sales just come into play.

I love that. It's you don't actually have to do any real selling, hard selling” 

Ina Coveney: “Because I hate hard selling. I just set it up so that I don't have to, and I still get sales. That's what I wish for everybody. Wow. That's very cool. Thank you so much. This was a great time.”